Accepting Mobile Payments with Amit Mathradas of PayPal (Podcast) | Ep. #067

Elizabeth Larkin, Michael Kelly, and Eric Dollinger

Are you a small business owner who wants to start accepting mobile payments? In episode 67, hosts Elizabeth Larkin and Gene Marks are joined by Amit Mathradas of PayPal to talk to business owners about accepting mobile payments and answer this question:

“I have a pottery business. Right now I only accept cash payments because my business is so mobile. I sell at flea markets and craft fairs. I’d like to start accepting credit cards. I’ve seen other business owners using their mobile phones to accept payments via people’s credit cards, but I’m not really sure where to start.

And furthermore, what are the issues with accepting mobile payments and what should I be looking out for? What kind of solutions should I have in place for my business to deal with those issues?”


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Elizabeth: Welcome back to the Small Biz Ahead Podcast. Gene, how are you today?

Gene: I’m doing just fine, Elizabeth. I hear we have an interesting conversation coming up.

Elizabeth: We do. We have Amit Mathradas. Who’s the General Manager and the head of North American Small Business of PayPal who’s gonna be coming on. I’m so excited that we have a guest this big to our little podcast here. But we had so many questions about mobile payments and he’s gonna come on and talk about that.

And I want to tell you a story I had using PayPal, that was very positive.

Gene: Go.

Elizabeth: Because I just always associated them with when I bought things on eBay, I paid through PayPal like 10 years ago, and I hadn’t really used them that much. But, I was buying some clothing, I think I actually told you about this a couple of months ago, where I bought some clothes from a new retailer online. They only operate online.

Gene: Right.

Elizabeth: And I sent something back and they never… I bought two things, I returned one of them. And they never reimbursed me for the one I returned.

Gene: Jerks.

Elizabeth: So, I never heard from them, I kept having to follow up with them. Like every week I would email them, and they were like, “Oh yeah, we’re gonna get to it soon.” But they never followed up with me. And you were saying that was just terrible customer service. So, because I had never heard of this retailer before, I paid through PayPal. There was an option to pay them directly or to use my PayPal account, and I paid through PayPal. So, it had been like two months and I hadn’t gotten refunded for the item I returned. So I contacted PayPal, I called up, this guy answered on the first ring. He was amazing, he said, “I’m gonna contact them, I’m gonna open a case, and if they don’t get back to within seven days-”

Gene: We’re gonna send the PayPal police after them. Is that right?

Elizabeth: No, what they did, he said, “We’re gonna refund you for that item, plus your entire order.”

Gene: Whoa.

Elizabeth: So I had ordered two things

Gene: Right.

Elizabeth: And they were both the same price. So he said, “You’re gonna get your refund for that item and we’re gonna refund the entire amount to you.”

Gene: Wow.

Elizabeth: So-

Gene: And then the next day he was fired for making that promise-

Elizabeth: No.

Gene: His manager heard him, “What, what are you doing?”

Elizabeth: No, that’s the PayPal guarantee.

Gene: That’s the policy, that’s awesome.

Elizabeth: So, of course this company never followed up with them. So seven days later, I immediately got into my credit card account the full order. The amount of the full order. And I just feel like now every time I see PayPal on a website, I’m gonna do business with that small business because I know they’re taking things seriously cause they’re using PayPal.

Gene: You know the reason why we’re having Amit on is that PayPal itself is transforming itself. And it is… Listen, just to give you guys a preview, we’re gonna be talking abut PayPal stuff. So I mean, yeah it’s kind of a PayPal commercial, but at the same time I know… I have so many clients that use PayPal and they compete against other services like Square and other very good payment options, but this is where it’s going if you’re running a small business. You have to take credit cards, you have to use a service like that.

And ultimately, and I got to ask him about this, where’s it all going with mobile payments as well as just contact lists on your phone. This affects all of us as business owners whether we’re B2B or B2C, this is how payments are gonna be made. And PayPal’s right in the middle of this trend.

So, they’re a very… Amit’s gonna be a good guy to talk to about where this is going.

Elizabeth: And consumers love them.

Gene: Of course.

Elizabeth: They’re really, really, easy to use. So, if your business is doing business with PayPal, I feel like you’re gonna get more sales.

Gene: Yeah, it’ll help.

Elizabeth: It’s just easy to work with.

Gene: It’ll help.

Elizabeth: I’m sure the other businesses are too. But, in my recent experience, I had a really good experience with PayPal.

Gene: Good.

Elizabeth: So, we’re gonna be back with Amit right after we hear from our sponsor.

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QUESTION: Accepting Online Payments

Elizabeth: Okay, we’re here with Amit Mathradas, he’s the General Manager and the head of North American Small Business at PayPal. And his team are the key drivers of setting and executing PayPal’s long-term strategy to serve small businesses. So we’re gonna start with our question.

This is from Diane. She’s a small business owner, she did not tell us what type of business she has or where she’s from. So Gene will just make that up.

Gene: I’m sure it’s highly successful like everybody else that poses questions here.

Elizabeth: So here’s her question, she writes:

“I have a pottery business. Right now I only accept cash payments because my business is so mobile. I sell at flea markets and craft fairs. I’d like to start accepting credit cards. I’ve seen other business owners using their mobile phones to accept payments via people’s credit cards, but I’m not really sure where to start.

And furthermore, what are the issues with accepting mobile payments and what should I be looking out for? What kind of solutions should I have in place for my business to deal with those issues?”

Gene: Are you sure Amit’s really going to be able to answer these questions? Clearly, unrelated to what he does.

Amit: Well, first of all that’s a great question. And we get that quite a bit. Just to give you a little bit of background. PayPal today works with 210 million users, and out of that 17 million are merchants globally. So we have a lot of interaction with the small business and medium business space on a daily basis. And the question that’s being asked is a question that we get very often from small businesses that either have a brick and mortar with certain resources of people going through a line or paying for coffee or buying goods. Or very important, are the people that are mobile and are at trade shows or are conducting businesses at flea markets or you know wherever it may be.

And so, the products that we have, as you recall PayPal you know started off as a yellow button on a site. And what we quickly realized is, a lot of people need omni-channel solutions. And so, we over the years launched a product called PayPal Here. And you know PayPal Here to me, is the perfect solution of what this listener is looking for. Because what it really offers is two components.

One, it offers an app, you know mobile app that sits on your phone. And it comes with a free little card swiper so you can accept credit cards anywhere. If someone wants to move up, there is also an add-on that you can purchase, which accepts chip cards, contact lists, like Apple Pay or other forms of contact lists. And of course all forms of debit, credit, and payment cards.

So, the beauty of what that solution does and why it benefits customers such as this listener is: One, you can accept payments anywhere. Two, through your mobile app, you can fire off an invoice to your customer immediately for the payment you have just taken. Three, because you’re on PayPal’s network, this merchant would be covered under what we call seller protection. And seller protection basically is if someone is … If you have a website or you’re accepting payments and there’s any fraud related issues or charge back related issues, PayPal handles that for you. And so, those are in a nutshell, the benefits.

The things that I would say that they should be looking out for as they make these decisions. The things that I would say that they should be looking out for as they’re making these decisions is one, is the solution that they’re getting tied to an app so that they can actually take the payment, do the invoice, and have an end to end experience for their customer. Two, is there transparency in pricing? And that’s a big part of… The merchant should be able to know what they’re being charged every time they accept a credit card and working with a partner that is very transparent on that. And then the third thing is what I mentioned with security. Are the, obviously, are the devises secure? And do they have things like seller protection other things that PayPal offers that really protects the merchant as they’re making these transactions.

Gene: You know, Amit, when I hear all the options that PayPal has, that sounds great. When I hear this question though from this listener, she’s doing a craft business, she’s only accepting cash. My first inclination was, what century are you in that you’re… It’s like it really, when I go to any craft fairs or whatever it seems like people, they get it.

Now, the biggest complaint that I hear from my clients and customers is always like fees, fees, fees. “Oh, I don’t want to accept these services, because then I have to pay the transaction fee and all of that.”

Elizabeth: But, you do so… I mean your sales would go up though. Because who’s carrying around cash?

Gene: A hundred percent right. I think to myself, “Dude, I mean, you know you’re going to have people like me that will walk away and not buy because I’m not carrying around cash.” So I mean, what do you say when you come across small business owners that at first seem defensive when it comes to paying fees to be using a service like PayPal? What’s your response to somebody like that?

Amit: So, I think you guys touched on a few key points. One is, a person like me, I rarely carry cash.

Gene: Right.

Amit: And so, if you’re accepting things through PayPal Here and are a customer that’s in the or a merchant that’s in the field, think about all the business you’re going to lose because someone either doesn’t have cash or you’re constantly having to break down change and find change for a certain transaction. And especially if you have a line building up, the throughput of how many people you’re working with starts decreasing because a lot of people don’t want to wait in line to pay cash for something.

Elizabeth: That’s so true.

Amit: So, that’s one piece of it. The other big one is, you know a lot of our customers actually are online. And they have a web store. And what’s happening within especially in that situation is, even allowing… Even if you decide to use your debit card, you’ve linked something or you’re paying with a credit card, even new solutions like OneTouch that PayPal has come out with which effectively remembers the customer. And the next time they come to any site that has the capabilities of PayPal merchant or OneTouch, it’s a one click, done.

Those sorts of speeds and transaction are huge. The other big thing with cash that we have found is, you know the other thing to think about is security.

Gene: Right.

Amit: You know, in instance you are now protected by seller protection if you are using PayPal. You don’t have to deal with charge back and fraud issues. They will happen, but you’ve got a partner on your side with PayPal that will work with you to figure that piece out. So, those are the other big things around going cashless where it’s starting to pick up steam is around the security lens.

Gene: Right that’s great. Did you have a question?

Elizabeth: So, if Diane were to take her business online, which I’m sure she’s going to. I mean a pottery business, she’s probably going to open up a shop online. Using PayPal for both of those services, if she were to use PayPal Here and then installing the OneTouch with. I use PayPal OneTouch all the time. I’m a big PayPal user as a consumer. That, I feel like that will work much more seamlessly for her if she’s using both of those products.

Amit: That is, yes. In my opinion, of course it will. And a couple of ancillary benefits that you will get by doing that. OneTouch the great thing is it’s the fastest adoptive product in our history. We now have over 60 million consumers and over 6 million merchants using and deploying OneTouch. Conversion for OneTouch is over 80%. So, for someone who comes to… Offers it from a merchant’s perspective, the check out rate is a lot higher, so you’re capturing more for dollars that are sitting in your online store.

And all these pieces combined is where, someone gets a boost. And the second big thing is, if you have one PayPal account, which you’re using for PayPal Here, you’re using for your online sales. Over time, that’s volume of payments that you’re getting can also be used to qualify you for a working capital loan, that we offer. And so, at some point in your customer’s life cycle, in the merchant’s life cycle, they’re going to need cash to build up inventory, hire people. And PayPal you know has issued 115,000 merchant loans, over $3 billion worth. And it’s really to help boost their… At times of need, to boost their cash flow. So these are some of the benefits that come when you also connect all these accounts using PayPal.

Gene: Great. I want to get back to the working capital services, and I promise to do that. But I got to ask you this question. For starters, you told me you live in New York City, correct?

Amit: Correct.

Gene: Okay. Do you have an iPhone or a Droid phone?

Amit: I have an iPhone.

Gene: You have an iPhone. Okay. So, you’re in New York City… Now, I’m in Philly and I have a Samsung phone. Like a Galaxy phone, which has not exploded as of yet, it still seems to be working fine. Now, tell me if I am wrong here and you work at PayPal that’s like mobile payments… I go to stores, restaurants all the time in Center City, Philadelphia, and even in New York and all that. I never use my phone to pay for anything. You know. I am still, with all the hype that we have seen about mobile payments over the year, it’s been a few years now. I am… Same thing with you Elizabeth, right? I mean you’re, right-

Elizabeth: I never use it.

Gene: Never do. And I’m ready to do it, but I’m just I’m pulling out my… In fact when I try to use my phone to pay for something I get strange looks from the people behind the counter. I mean, so… And I’m assuming you have got to have the same experience. I mean you’re probably trying to do it and also hitting along the same issues that we have as well. When is this gonna happen? Are we gonna hit a tipping point when we are actually gonna be using our phones to pay for goods? Or is this ever gonna happen?

Amit: Well, I think it will. So when you say, mobile payments, in my mind it’s split into two categories. One is people using their mobile phones to purchase things through apps and the websites. And we’ll keep that as a separate conversation that we can talk about.

Gene: Right.

Amit: And then the other one is contact lists. Where I’m just using my phone through NFC or one of those services who just tap at a store and pay.

I think in my opinion where I think some of the barriers to that are is for a consumer, you have to be on the right platform with the right merchants that’s accepting that. So are they accepting Android Pay or are they accepting Apple Pay? You know, what sort of funding source do you have linked to it? And what is slowly happening, and PayPal is actually leading the way in some of this, is we are now moving to becoming agnostic, for the customer. And what I mean by that, you know over the last couple of years, we struck up deals with all the card networks. MasterCard, Visa, Discover, with credit card issuers, Citi and Chase. With payment companies, peer to peer like Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, you know Google. Because effectively, what PayPal is working to do is be agnostic for the merchant and for the consumer saying, “You can connect all these platforms to PayPal.”

You can use any funding source, whether it’s a bank account or your Citi card or any of the networks, MasterCard, Visa, etc.” And what I think will happen over time, and what we are betting on and what we’re starting to see happening, is that level of being one-stop shop for all payments, is what will drive some of the increase in take rates of consumers now, saying I have one source to pay and whatever I’m using flows through that one source.

Gene: Yeah, I kind of… Don’t you think some Elizabeth like if… When you go into a store right now, if I’m a merchant, I’m like, “Ugh, okay, so now besides Visa, MasterCard, American Express, now I’ve got to accept Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Android.” It’s like, and then obviously if you’re a consumer, it’s confusing as well… To me it seems like you have a platform like a PayPal, where… It’s like listen, I just as a merchant, I accept PayPal. And if I’m a consumer, if I have the PayPal app on my phone, it’s connected to my credit card and-

Elizabeth: You can link that to however you want to link it.

Gene: Is there any concerns that I should be thinking of if I’m a merchant for doing that? In other words, is that gonna cost me… When I think about that and I think about cost, I think so now instead of just accepting Apple Pay, I’m gonna accept PayPal because that integrates, that’ll work with Apple Pay. And when I hear it’s another layer of another company being involved, the first thing that comes to my mind as a merchant is it must mean I’m gonna have more costs involved. Do you think that’s gonna be reality or not?

Amit: I don’t think so. In fact, my view point is I think over time your costs probably come down. And here’s the reason why. Look, to PayPal for a merchant, we’re very transparent on what we charge. There is no hidden fees, there’s no differential if you charge with Amex or with MasterCard or Visa. It’s all one flat fee.

For a merchant, you’re no longer having to install or deal with multiple pieces of hardware over time. To say, do I have to have a solution for Apple Pay, Android Pay, you know will this contact list device work on all the new forms of payments and contact list providers that are coming out?

Gene: True.

Amit: So effectively what that does over time is concentrate and say, “Hey, if you just accept PayPal, your customer with 200 million plus base that PayPal has, we have now given them the ability to link whatever funding source they want.” And that will A, increase the usage, we believe of PayPal, which we’re seeing. But also as we introduce these 200 million consumers to the 17 million merchants the throughput will start going up.

And so, that’s the model and that’s why we’re talking about being agnostic and partnering with all the players in the space. To really become the platform and democratize payments and be their one solution.

Gene: Yeah, that totally makes the most sense to do that. And plus just the ease of use for the consumers were to hopefully have an impact on activity and sales in your store as well.

Okay, let me shift gears a little bit if that’s okay?

Elizabeth: Yeah, great.

Gene: Working capital. Alright, I mean we’re beating you up here on everything there has to do with PayPal.

Amit: Which is great.

Gene: Yeah, they’ll be a test after this.

But, so working capital. I mean, PayPal, a lot of other merchant services, you compete against Square, you compete against other companies like that, that have similar programs. So number one, can you explain to me, I’m a merchant, how does PayPal Working Capital work? And, that’s part one of the question. And then part two is, why wouldn’t I just use a bank? Why would I use you instead of a traditional financing if I need working capital?

Amit: Got it. So, let me answer the first part of that question-

Gene: Sure.

Amit: Which is what is working capital? What working capital is, is a product we offer, which effectively is a loan that helps merchants improve their cash flow and during times of need. The way it works is, when you sign up for PayPal, after a few months of us just knowing your transactional volume. We build up a little bit of history on you as a merchant and say, “We know merchant X or Y does this much of revenue and this is the standard flow that they have.” What that allows us also then to do it, better qualify people for loans and give them more attractive rates. And have more data so that we can issue more loans than a traditional bank.

And the way it works is, someone comes in, applies for working capital loan. You know we go through the process, they get approved, and the pay back method is actually very simple for them. They actually can choose to pay back as a percentage of revenue versus doing a monthly installment.

So, on a day that you have no revenue, you know no one showed up or you didn’t go to trade show. You don’t pay anything. On a day you had a massive spike, and if you say, I’m paying back 5% of revenue, you know, that percentage… So it helps what that really allows the merchant to do. Is also manage how they pay back and they’re not burdened with a monthly installment regardless of where they are in their sales cycle during the year.

Elizabeth: That’s interesting.

Gene: Makes sense. How does approval work? Is it fairly quick? Like how long does it take… If I want to apply, how long would it take?

Amit: It’s fairly quick. So once you’ve been on the platform for a while and we have two three months of history on you, then you just apply and the approval is… I’d say within hours to a day or two depending if we need more information.

Gene: And then I’m assuming funds are available if… You would approve a working capital line based on my revenues and then I can… Or cash receipts actually. And then I’d be able to pull money out based on that line whenever I want.

Amit: Correct. And the funds are deposited into your PayPal account.

Gene: I think the fact is though is that interest rates are still higher… I mean, no where near as much as some online lenders charge or what not. But-

Elizabeth: Or a credit card.

Gene: Or a credit card, but they are higher than a bank rate. But, you’re dealing with a traditional bank takes way longer with much less chance of approval. And less availability of funds. Is that a fair statement to make?

Amit: That is a fair statement. Where we see PayPal Working Capital really helping and where the niche really is, is in some levels to the folks that may not have enough history to go work with a bank and get a loan.

Someone who is a new business and has just been around for six months to a year and is like, it’s time, I know my business is growing, things are working, I want to hire somebody, or buy inventory. So, because this is based on the information we have on the PayPal network and your payments that you’re accepting and we know a profile of you, it allows us to serve that base that may traditionally may not be served by a bank to start with.

Gene: It makes a lot of… You’re running a coffee shop or a restaurant or whatever. You’re in business for four, or five, six months, you’re still not… Getting a loan from a bank is still very, very difficult to do. Banks need longer history than that. And yet meanwhile, your transaction service, PayPal, your payment service is getting… You see the numbers, right, everyday. You’ve got them in front of you. So you know what my turnover is, and therefore, you can make advances based on that. So it makes a lot of sense.

Amit: In this program, as I’d mentioned earlier, has been hugely successful. We’ve helped 115,000 businesses across the globe and issued over $3 billion of loans. So, it is something that our customers are obviously asking us for. But it’s also something that they benefit by coming to PayPal and working with us because once we understand who you are, we want to partner with you on your growth. And when you have issues such as cash flow problems, we’re there to help you.

Gene: Fair enough. That’s great. I know we don’t have that much time for that much more. But I did want to ask you another… On another area that I’ve always been interested in with PayPal, which is the global seller initiative. And I know there was, PayPal and eBay were together for a number of years and then they had an amicable split. PayPal’s on your own. But there is a lot of advantages if you are a company that you’ve got an e-commerce site or a website, you want to try to sell overseas. Or even if you’re trying to sell through Amazon, Alibaba, wherever platform you’re using, PayPal can provide assistance to help you do that with a lot less headaches. And I don’t know that much about that program, what kind of assistance would PayPal provide?

Amit: By giving you a statistic that we always use?

Gene: Okay, you’re digging it up.

Amit: It shows the importance of how global e-commerce is now becoming so relevant. By 2025, there’s going to be 4.2 billion consumers spending $30 trillion globally.

Gene: And they will all be located in Beijing. Is that right?

Amit: Well, I’m sure quite a few of them will be. But, you know, as India, China, as you know, Europe is already a big market of course. So, with that what we’ve quickly realized is, merchants and small businesses, traditionally the way they served was, “Hey I want to serve a local market, maybe I’ve got a localized assortment or a service level.” As merchants are facing pressures from others, other large players in the market. What globalization allows these businesses to do, is to reach customers across the globe that traditionally they wouldn’t have, with their products or unique services.

What PayPal’s global services solution is, it’s really a tool kit and we’ve partnered with a company called WebInterpret, and what it does is, we basically take your current website. We can within a week, translate it into 60 different localized languages. We can help you with FCO and FCM in the local countries so that you get found. You know when someone in Beijing is searching for a solution. It deals and helps you to run all the currency conversion, tax conversion and also helps small businesses with shipping.

So effectively, what happens is, if I’m a business in Kansas, and I do all this, I get my website and someone in Beijing buys, all I have to do is ship my product to a WebInterpret hub and they ship it out to the end user. And so, we help with… That solution really helps with the end to end and taking your small business and making it global.

Gene: That’s great. How long has that program been around?

Amit: So we’ve been doing things around cross-border trade for years in the sense of providing tools, kits. The WebInterpret solution is something that we’ve done this year. And kind of building up the whole website translation, helping you with you know … Of course PayPal has always accepted payment in multiple currencies in the 200 plus markets around the world. So that coupled with the capability that WebInterpret provides, is really, in our view, a little bit of a game changer for the FNB state.

Gene: Great stuff. Amit, thank you that was a great conversation.

Elizabeth: Thank you so much. I just want to bring you back to Diane’s question. I was so happy that she wrote in about bringing her pottery business into the 20th century. And instead of having Gene yell at her, we actually had Amit from PayPal on, the actual source to say, “Yes, you can easily do that with the card reader and your phone.”

Gene: Taking cash in 2017 I would have been yelling at her for doing that, but.

Elizabeth: Thank you so much, this was such a great discussion on all of the different things. All of the different ways that small business owners can take advantage of what PayPal offers. And we really appreciate having you on and I’m sure the listeners got a lot out of this, including the working capital conversation.

Gene: Agreed.

Amit: Well, it’s my pleasure thank you for having me.

Elizabeth: Thank you.


Elizabeth: We’re back with Gene’s Word of Brilliance. Gene, you know I just went to Germany.

Gene: Yes. And I already gave you a preview of what my Word of Brilliance is gonna be. And my Word of Brilliance today, Elizabeth, is beer. I wrote about this recently how the beer industry not doing so well. In fact-

Elizabeth: Because so many people are home brewing?

Gene: Well, that’s a good question. Worldwide, China, Germany, England, other countries, they’re seeing a decline in beer sales and in the U.S., Goldman Sachs just recently did a report that found out that beer sales in the U.S. have stagnated. And they’re actually predicted in 2017, there will be a decline in beer sales.

Elizabeth: Is beer sales something we want to see increase?

Gene: Well, let’s say it’s a big industry. And there are some big brands. The Boston Brewing and Constellation brands, you know they make like Corona. Their stock prices get hit so that impacts the wealth of a lot of people, investors as well as their employees that work there. So, yeah, we do. We want to see every industry do well. Not only that, but those are the big companies that are affected. Beer impacts small businesses across the country because people are craft breweries, that affects.

Elizabeth: There are so many that are popping up in the Hartford area.

Gene: And just the bars and restaurants, and what impact does that have on their sales and obviously in their profits as well? So, what’s impacting, as you’d mentioned home brewers, and a little bit of an impact. There’s… The biggest impact, it’s those darn millennials again. Apparently that generation, that’s the 18 to 34 year olds, but actually, even into their early 40’s, they are moving more towards wine and spirits. So when we-

Elizabeth: Whiskey is huge right now.

Gene: Whiskey is huge, so people are drinking craft bourbons. You know when I… People drink wine cause it’s less filling and there’s more choices, so they’re moving you know. And then there’s another little thing that’s kind of creeping up, but it’s that legalization of marijuana in some states as well. Like in Oregon and Colorado. That’s having an impact on beer sales as well.

So, the reason why I think that’s important is that, if you are running a restaurant or a bar, if you’re a craft brewer, if you are somewhat involved in the beer industry. You might want to take a look at what you’re ordering next year. And you might want to change your inventory around a little bit. Because, your customers might not be wanting beer as much as they might want instead some craft bourbons instead.

Elizabeth: I’m seeing more and more cider on menus too at restaurants. Maybe that’s part of the gluten-free thing.

Gene: Yep. Cider was also very popular, has always been very popular in Europe and in England in fact.

Elizabeth: But not really in the U.S.

Gene: Not in the U.S.

Elizabeth: But now it really is.

Gene: It’s really becoming and… Alcoholic cider and it’s actually delicious. But anyway, be careful if you’re in that business. Beer sales are declining. They’re projected to continue to decline at least for the foreseeable future. So, take a look at your inventory, and your purchasing practices for the next year.

Elizabeth: Alright, good tip. We’ll be back in a couple of days with our next episode, which is about favoring your best employee and how to avoid doing that.

Gene: Or to do it.

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