Does it take your clients more than 30 days to pay an invoice? Then, perhaps it’s time you looked into hiring a factoring company. Factoring companies can help small business owners maintain a steady cash flow by reducing the amount of time it takes to receive payment. In this episode, Jon Aidukonis and Gene Marks, along with Kelly Nelson, VP of Business Development at TCI Capital, discuss how factoring companies can contribute to the growth of your small business.

Executive Summary

0:33—Today’s Topic: How can a Factoring Company Support the Growth of My Small Business?

2:39—Factoring companies are third-party institutions that can help improve your small business’s cash flow. For a percentage of your invoice payment, these companies can ensure that you receive immediate payment from your customers, rather than having to wait until the end of a longer pay period.

3:34—Factoring tends to be most popular among service based small businesses.

5:47—If your small business is employed by the government, you may need to review the terms of your specific contract because these will determine how easy it is for a factoring company to redirect the money.

6:56—Small business owners whose customers are based in other countries will have to find a company that specializes in international factoring, since this is not always a standard service.

7:43—Factoring is not the same as debt collecting.

8:54—Before a factoring company agrees to work with you, they will want a clearer understanding of how you are currently financing your business, as well as your cash needs.

10:29—Factoring rates are typically determined by how much you’re billing out per month and the waiting period for each invoice.

11:31—As a business owner, you need to know whether you want factoring to become a regular part of your current operations so that you can find a company that fits your specific needs.

14:36—Since your clients will be the ones paying the factoring company, you need to provide the factoring company with an accounts payable contact so that they can make all the proper arrangements.

16:42—After buying your invoice, factoring companies retain a small percentage as compensation for providing you with the capital upfront.

18:58—As small businesses continue to bounce back from the pandemic, there has been a noticeable increase in the need for factoring companies. For many small businesses, their line of credit is not enough to properly finance their growth rate.

20:44—In the event that your client can’t pay their invoice, it is your responsibility as the vendor to use the 10% reserve to buy back the invoice from your factoring company and pay the remaining balance.

23:27—If you don’t want your customers to know that you are working with a factoring company, you would have to set up a non notice with the factoring company for a higher fee.

24:32—Ideally, you should be open with your customers about working with a factoring company so that they aren’t caught off guard by any third-party communication.

26:54—To avoid paying any defaulted invoices out of pocket, small business owners should go ahead and build those potential costs into their initial proposals.



The views and opinions expressed on this podcast are for informational purposes only, and solely those of the podcast participants, contributors, and guests, and do not constitute an endorsement by or necessarily represent the views of The Hartford or its affiliates.

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Speaker 1: You’re listening to the Small Biz Ahead podcast brought to you by The Hartford.

Gene: Hey everybody. And welcome back to the Small Biz Ahead podcast. Glad you made it here. My name is Gene Marks and I’m sure you were well familiar with my cohost, Jon Aidukonis. Jon, I’m glad that we are here. We have a lot to talk about because this is the money week as it is. We’re talking about all things, financing and raising money and managing money in your business. And today, we have a real interesting conversation that we’re going to have with Kelly Nelson. Kelly Nelson is a VP of business development at TCI Capital, which is, which is Kelly’s website. And what’s going to happen, for those of you guys listening, as typical, I’ve got a bunch of questions for Kelly. I’m going to turn it over to Jon. He’s going to have a bunch of questions for Kelly. I will see if Kelly is still standing at the end of our conversation. So Kelly, thanks so much for joining us. I’m glad you’re here.

Kelly: Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Gene: Sure. So first of all, just brief overview, give us a idea of what TCI Capital does. Where are you guys located by the way?

Kelly: We are in Edina, Minnesota, which is a suburb of the twin cities, predominantly Minneapolis to south of it.

Gene: Got it. And what do you guys do?

Kelly: We were purchased by Fidelity bank now, probably not the fidelity bank that everybody knows are fidelity investments. We’re owned by a company that’s been around for now, 51 years, Fidelity Bank, smaller local bank here in Edina. And they purchased us right at little over three years ago. We were private company and then the owner sold out and we’re purchased by a bank and it’s been great, so that aspect of it. And we do accounts receivable financing, also known as factoring. We get companies paid on their invoices right away, so they can cash flow their business. And a lot of times grow their business.

Gene: Okay. So let’s talk about factoring because when I talk to clients about different ways of financing, oh, we can get a bank loan or we can not pay our vendors, or we can raise money in other crowd funding, if we want to do that or loans from family or friends. Whenever I bring up factoring, there’s been this historical stigma to it, which it just, which amazes me. So I want to clear that up and have you, I mean, you’re in the business of doing this so clearly this is a legit business model for a lot of good companies. So Kelly, let’s insult the intelligence of our audience and just explain to all of us, just what exactly is factoring. Give us an explanation.

Kelly: Right, and so what factoring is when you are doing business with another business, right, and you have completed the work, or you’ve sold them a product, a product or service, and you have that invoice and you’re going to turn it into accounts payable now for payment. Well, those companies may not pay for 30, 60, even 90 plus days on those invoices. And obviously that is a long time to wait when you have your bills to pay, a payroll to make, etc.

Gene: Right.

Kelly: So what we do is we get them, our customers paid on their invoices right away, turning those invoices into cash, to help with their cash flow.

Gene: So, let’s dig into the weeds a little bit. First of all, what types of customers are best suited to this type of financing?

Kelly: I would say my 10 years of doing this with TCI, the most that I see is predominantly service related businesses.

Gene: Okay.

Kelly: I provided a service, we want to get paid now versus waiting. So some of the top industries that we would see would be as staffing companies, you got to pay their people weekly. I mean-

Gene: They’ve got cash flowing.

Kelly: I mean, daily now, we’re seeing that. We’re seeing a lot of historically oil field related oil companies are really known for having the ability to pay, but really stretching out the payments for the people, the service companies that are doing work for them such as like hauling water, doing other ancillary work along with that 60 to 90 days is not uncommon for those. Another industry that’s really become hot is the telecom industries, with everything going from up to 5G.

Kelly: There’s so much of the upgrades that they’re doing in sourcing and so we’re seeing a ton of that business. Other industries that are historically known for factoring would be as the trucking industry. So those guys are hauling the loads and they need to get paid right away. I’d say that’s probably where a highest percentage of funding factoring company is out there play. We do do that. However, I would say the staffing, telecom and other just general service businesses are where we play. Now, we will and still do a lot in the manufacturing space. So somebody’s completing projects and they just need to get paid, that’s another one. There are specialty factoring companies out there that will do for the people that are selling their widgets to Target and Best Buy and all that stuff. It comes in and then also with any construction industry, it comes with its own nuances and issues. We typically don’t play too much in that arena, just because it’s so nichey kind of thing.

Gene: How about, Kelly, government and also international companies? I actually, all of those examples that you gave, I’ve definitely seen them. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just because of the nature of my client base, but I do have a few clients that do business with the government. You can wait forever. It’s like you’ll die of old age before the government pays and they use factoring companies. Is that also an area and also international as well? If you could comment on that.

Kelly: I’m glad you brought that up. Because that was one that we do do, for the government contracts. It is kind of the nuances with government contracts can be is how the agreements are written. Some when you’re factoring. And obviously we probably get into this later, but it’s called the notice of assignment. Some government contracts are easier than others to be able to redirect the money. That’s the one thing I will say is when we’re doing factoring, the payments are still made to our customers name. It’s just sent to our bank versus directly to them because we don’t make a dime until the invoices pay.

Gene: Okay. So, and we’re going to get into that process in just a minute, because it’s important. And just one final thing is on the international side is factoring an option. If a customer is over in, I don’t know, the UK or Asia or whatever and I want to get paid quicker.

Kelly: Yes. Again, that’s a specialty factoring deal. You got to find a company that would be open to that. For us, it’s they could be doing work overseas or with another country, but they have to be billing a U.S. entity and paid in U.S. dollars for us to make it work. We’re just not going to go to another country to go try to collect our money. We get paid. So, but there are things like credit insurance through, there’s plenty of companies out there that do that, that offer up some credit insurance that basically back the entity, basically back in the invoice.

Gene: That makes sense. And also just to make sure that like, we’re completely clear for anybody listening to this or watching this, this is not a collection thing. this is not like, oh, I’ve got a bad debt. So I’m going to like hand it off to TCI capital and they’re going to go and collect it for. This is a cash flow thing, correct?

Kelly: Absolutely. Yeah. That is another common thing that over the years people are have called up and say, “Hey, I got this company isn’t paying me. And the invoice is 180 days old.” It’s like, okay, that’s not what we do. We buy invoices and we base it on their customers credit even more than their credit. They can, with us specifically, our customers can have good personal credit or actually kind of crappy personal credit. We really don’t care so much about that. We care about at the end of the day, who’s paying that invoice because ultimately that’s how we’re-

Gene: Yeah.

Kelly: Recoup our money and-

Gene: Yeah. And you’re the one that’s getting, you’re providing the financing, you’re getting your customers their cash fast so that they can move on. This is not like the Sopranos or something. You’re not going after people with baseball bats and collecting money, so fine. Okay. Let’s walk through the particular. So let’s take me as an example, I’ve got round numbers, I’ve got a hundred thousand dollar invoice for a project with a big customer and as big companies like to do, they delay their payment particularly to small businesses. I see that all the time, meanwhile, I’m paying out for materials and my labor, so I want to factor this invoice. So we’ll take just that simple example. How does that work?

Kelly: Yeah. So what I would want to know is out of the gate is how are you currently financing your company now? Do you currently have a line of credit? Do you have an SBA loan? Are you doing it out of pocket? Right. So I want-

Gene: Why do you care? Why do you care how I’m financing my business?

Kelly: Because it goes back to a liens, right? And so whatever we’re purchasing in regards to invoicing TCI factoring companies in general, want to be in first lien position on the invoices that we’re purchasing.

Gene: I see.

Kelly: Cool thing about is there are different ways, even if they do have a line of credit or if they may have liens on their company, that we can work with the banks to inner creditors and other ways around that. But going back to your point, so we’re trying to find out how they’re currently cash flowing in the business. And then we also want to know, what they’re looking for, right? What is their cash need? Is it, Hey, are you growing quick? And I need this money because I need more money to offset and maybe hire people or-

Gene: Okay.

Kelly: … whatever it is. So we need to understand what their cash need is. Then we can start going into, okay, our rates are going to be based on approximately how much you’re billing out per month. And then how long TCI has to wait to get paid once we buy your invoices.

Gene: So I’m confused because I thought this is like kind of done on a customer by customer basis or an invoice by invoice basis. And now you’re saying like, oh, I want to know what your cash flow is like, and I want to know what you’re billing out overall per month.

Kelly: Yeah.

Gene: I don’t understand why you would want to know that if you can explain further.

Kelly: The good thing is we don’t have to fund all their customers, right? If they have somebody that’s paying quick, they just don’t need the financing on that specific customer. But it is important for us to know which customers they do want to get funded on specifically. And then how long we’d have to wait, because that’s the information that we would need in order to best determine which different program to set them up with in regards to funding.

Gene: Okay. All right. So let’s get back to it. So I’ve got this customer and he’s got a hundred thousand dollars invoice and I’m like, Kelly, I need some help. I’m paying money out and let’s make the assumption. I got no liens. Let’s make the assumption that my business is fine and profitable. It’s just like, there’s a big chunk of change. And I’d like to get paid on it earlier.

Kelly: Right. Yeah. So, I say, Gene, is this something that you’re looking for as like a one time funding? Or is it something where you need it on more of an ongoing basis? Because with us, we do month to month agreements. We don’t lock customers into long term contracts and all that stuff, like a good majority of companies do in our space. However, we would like them to be able to fund more than an invoice or two, because we don’t charge any upfront costs. It’s set up with us, we incur a lot of costs with lien searches, etc. So we kind of need to know what their intentions are and what their needs are to make sure that we’d be the proper fit for them.

Gene: So let me stop you right there and say like, just if I’m looking to work with a factoring company, I have had a long term view with this. This should be, what you are looking for is a longer term relationship, not just some one off type of thing. Not that you would turn it down, but that’s what you would prefer and your reason from a business standpoint is that you have upfront costs to get these things set up and going. And the idea is that if you have a longer term relationship, you can spread those costs out over longer term. It just benefits you. So I would want to know that as a business owner, going into like what what you’re trying to get accomplished.

Kelly: Yep, absolutely. Yeah. And so what we do is typically is a 90% advance on somebody’s invoices. And then we give them back the remaining 10% less our fee, when the customer pays, again, 30, 60, 90 days down the road. And that’s why asking and finding out what they’re looking to have funded on a monthly basis, ballpark is fine. We don’t need specific numbers and then finding those payment terms that will be able to give me the information need in order to come up with the rates on that month to month agreement. And then if they’re growing, I want to be able to show them our customers like, hey, as you grow, you don’t have to call us up and say, “Hey, give me a better deal. I’m doing more business with you.”

Kelly: We have programs specifically set up for, I call them pricing buckets. So if you’re billing between 30 and $50,000 a month, your price is X.

Gene: Got it.

Kelly: Once you hit over 50,000 to a hundred, then it’s a lower rate. It goes down incrementally. We review it every 30 days. So that’s what I think a lot of customers really like is that, “Hey, they’re rewarding me and I don’t have to go back and bug them and go, hey, give me a better deal.” It’s automatically happening.

Gene: I have a lot more questions, but Jon, I got to have you jump in here, because I’m going to eat up our entire interview, with just me talking. And I’m assuming Jon, we can stay on factoring by the way. And I’m sure Jon, you’ve got your questions as well that are overlap mine. So let me turn it over to you, Jon. Go ahead and fire away.

Jon: Awesome. Thanks Gene. Thanks Kelly for joining us. I think kind of following up on Jean’s line of questioning plainly, who pays you? So when you have that agreement with the business, at that point is the business who’s collecting the debt from their vendor who owes them or kind of client who owes them and then they pay you back? Or at that point once they kind of get the agreement, are you kind of servicing the collection of receipt of that payment from kind of the third party?

Kelly: So what happens is, is we will connect with, they’ll give us, our customers will give us good accounts payable contact. And we do, what’s just an email out to their customer saying, “Hey, we’re the finance company for XYZ company and you’ll still be paying their company, but here’s where the address will be moving forward for payments.” Or “if you do an ACH, this is what it is.” So we try to still stay as hands off as possible with that, however, most, a lot, I think something maybe we’ll go into maybe a little bit at some point would be as the fact of we do offer our collection services. And meaning, I’ll give you an example. So let’s say for instance, your customer doesn’t pay for 30 days, TCI, once you’re a customer isn’t calling or emailing them prior to 30 days and going, “Hey, where’s our money?” like the Tony Soprano kind of remark.

Kelly: We’re not doing that. It’s, so for instance, let’s say we that get out to say 35 days and we haven’t received payment. Our account manager, every customer has an account manager, may reach out to somebody in accounts and just say, “Hey, no, we’ve received these payments, but we haven’t received anything on this invoice. Is there anything you need, additionally, to make sure that that invoice pays?” It’s very customer friendly, just almost as if our customer was doing it, but it’s just an added service that we do that our customers trust us and really like us to do so they can focus their energies on growing their business instead of chasing their money, essentially.

Jon: Awesome. And I think that the probably big question on everyone’s mind is how you guys make money. So you had mentioned there’s kind of the upfront cost. You prefer the long term relationships. It’s not really alone so much, so I don’t think we’re talking interest here, but I guess there’s some kind of discount rate or preferred rate at which you buy the invoice, right? So the difference kind of is how you make money and I’m wondering how a business owner specifically on the smaller side, right, can kind of think about that. So there’s obviously the trade off. If you want the liquidity quickly, then you’re kind of paying for the access to that liquidity. And how does that kind of build out? Is it based on like a risk profile or kind of, are there industry average terms or how do you kind of think about that?

Kelly: Yeah, so it’s a combination of a few things, right? The, how much we’re buying a month. We’ll create a credit limit for each customer that they have that we’re purchasing. So we’ll let them know, “Hey, you’re working with this company. They’re not very strong financially.” Or so we can only, we’ll land up to this number, this amount on this specific customer. So that’s one of the things, but then to kind of going back into the how we charge as a rate is going to be based, majority of it is on is how much we’re buying a month and then how long we have to wait. So we’ll do that 90% advance and then give that customer back the remaining 10% less our fee. Now that fee could be anywhere from under one of the total invoice, to maybe on the very high end, maybe 3% of that invoice total.

Kelly: Now, if that’d be an example of somebody doing 20, $30,000 a month, and maybe we’re waiting 45 to 60 days as an example. If somebody’s, we have companies that are billing out half a million to a million dollars a month with us that we’re purchasing, those a lot of times, we’ll see those rates under 1%, and it’s all tax deductible. They write it off at the end of the year. But as you mentioned a little bit ago on it, it is not going against your balance sheet. We’re just advancing on good invoices.

Jon: Awesome. It’s an interesting way to think about getting kind of money back, back in your pocket versus on the shelf. So do you feel like that you’ve seen an increase in this kind of during with the implications we’ve seen from the pandemic because of supply chain backups, or when you think about kind of factoring in general, does it feel like, like there’s more curiosity around it or kind of more investigation on if it’s right for business owners?

Kelly: Yeah. I think initially when the pandemic started, I think everything kind of slowed down. So many of these, the payments and everything else, like everything had to be kind of relooked at, but now that kind of things are maybe obviously not back normally yet, but businesses are growing and they’re needing, especially when they’re rapidly growing. I would say the businesses that we’re seeing would be as companies that maybe have a line of credit, right. And the one thing that can be a negative BA on lines of credit is the fact that they may not grow at the rate that you want to grow. I have a customer, I just talked to this week where they had a line of credit for a million and a half dollars. Well, that’s great, but they’re now billing out a million dollars a week, right.

Kelly: And their customers are paying in almost 45 to 60 days. So that math don’t add up, they have to pocket with that money. So we’re seeing a lot of companies grow rapidly that need money. And that bank line of credit’s just not meeting their needs. Now I will say that our rates may not be as low as the line of credit, maybe in regards to what they’re paying, but there’s definitely a lot more benefits. And we can actually be relatively close to fees in regards to somewhat of a line of credit. You may be not quite as low, but definitely in the realm. And if they’re passing up a lot of work, what is that really costing them?

Jon: Are people pretty clear or maybe you can explain to us how it works, kind of on like who’s on the hook, if the client doesn’t pay?

Kelly: Right.

Jon: So if you’re stepping in and you’re like, okay, so we know this is a good account for you, but things can happen, right? I think especially kind of during COVID we saw that some of the most stable businesses were kind of shaken or if there is a natural emergency or disaster, if they’re unable to kind of pay their debt to the business that provided the service, because of that, you’re unable to kind of collect the debt that you bought. How does that start to look? Is it really passed on to that person who owed the debt originally? Is there some kind of third party liability where the person who kind of like engaged you in the model is also responsible, hoping that doesn’t happen a lot, but-

Kelly: Yeah.

Jon: What are the things to consider before you jumping on that path?

Kelly: You’re right. That can happen. I think historically it’s one half of 1% of every invoice that we buy, whatever, go to a place where it have to be purchased back. But in the case where it does happen like that is, now typically our standard, what we call recourse would be 90 days, right now. We can make exceptions to that or whatever, but let’s say hypothetically, we get out to say day 90 on a customer with, on an invoice. And for whatever reason, their customer has not paid. If we feel like we can still collect on that invoice, we can still collect past that say 90 days. But if their customer is just flat out not responding or they went out of business or whatever, they’re just not playing ball at that point, then yeah. We have to make a business decision at that point and go, “Hey, listen, that’s why we have this 10% reserve.”

Kelly: We do a 90% advance, hold that 10% back. Hopefully that would cover any shorts. If shortfalls, if that would happen. And then what happens if that does happen is, yeah. The customer would buy back that invoice sometimes with reserve. Maybe if it’s more, then they would have to take maybe some new billing to offset it. And that’s their responsibility to go and collect out on that remaining payment for that customer.

Jon: Yeah. And that makes sense. Eventually kind of everything returns to where it’s supposed to be. So, but I think it’s an interesting thing to consider because the kind of theme of this week is how to raise different money for different purposes. Right? So this is definitely an interesting way to look at cash flow. And I kind of look at it the same way I look at managing inventory of your business sometimes. Sometimes the money’s better in your pocket than on your shelf. This is kind of another way to kind of make sure you have access to that again.

Gene: Can I just jump in? I just have a couple quick questions or just to summarize Kelly, if I have a supplier, that I owe money to, and they’re getting factored through you, do I know that, am I aware of that? In other words, do I see any difference in payment terms or in where my money is going to, or the name? Am I suddenly sending my check to a different company? Because I know a lot of people get concerned about that. They don’t want their customers to know that there’s a factoring company involved.

Kelly: Oh sure. Sometimes people will bring up that issue of like, “oh, can we not contact their customer at all.” We have made exceptions occasionally, but typically when that happens, it would have to be usually 20 to 25% of, or less of whatever we’re purchasing on a monthly basis, before that can happen, it’s called a non notice. Obviously we’re still having our customer change where the payments sent to, we’re just not contacting their customer in that case. And yeah, we do make those exceptions.

Gene: I would’ve to be prepared for the fact that if I was dealing with say a large client and I sent their invoices out for you to, back to them through you guys, I guess you’re going to have some communication with my client, right?

Kelly: Yeah.

Gene: For payment. Yeah. So I have to have communication with my clients to let them know who you are and that you’re not some, not like a scam or something or you know what I mean? You’re going to be hearing from these guys and this is the reason why I’m doing that. And I think that’s an important concern. You also have to explain to, I think to your customers that like, “Hey, this is not a, we’re not in any financial trouble. There’s no whatever. The reason why we’re doing this is for cash flow. You guys take 90 days to pay me.”

Kelly: You’re their bank.

Gene: Because that makes sense, right?

Kelly: Yeah, exactly where, the good thing about that Gene is most of these, we call them debtors on our end because they pretty much usually know what a factoring company is, right? So occasionally we run across it where they don’t understand that aspect of it. It’s becoming almost, it’s so infrequent now that most of the customers and what we always try to reiterate to our customers is, “Hey check this out. We’ve been around for 27 years. TCI has, we’re A plus rated with a better business bureau. Check us out in regards to that.” And we are always going to put ourselves in a position to get the information we need with, as with less push as they would, we will incorporate them. We’ll even work with our customers to say, “Hey, if you’d rather have the first communication with your customer, to find out what the what’s going on, so be it.”

Kelly: We love it. Just include us on the email, let you send out there, find out what it is. So we work with our customer to say it isn’t all or nothing, we’re going to reserve the right to connect with them if we haven’t got paid, but we will always give our customer if that’s how they want to go that route, if they need that extra assurance until they build that trust, then so be it. We want to work with them to feel comfortable that they can absolutely make that point of contact, find out what the issue is and work with them to let them know that, hey, it’s not paying maybe because they’re missing a document.

Gene: Sure, sure. And one final comment that I have again for those of you listening or watching this is that it’s important to know upfront before you do the deal with your customer or client that you’re likely going to be factoring out this invoice. And the reason why is because like Kelly mentioned, fees can be anywhere from one to 3% of what the invoice is. And if you know this in advance, you can hopefully build those costs into your proposal and your quotes. You can recoup that. So it wouldn’t have to be something out of pocket. And like you said, Kelly as well, just also keep in mind. It’s not exactly one to 3% because it is a deductible expense. So there is tax effect would be something, 80% less than that. So just saying, it’s but you do, it is an extra cost.

Gene: It’s no different than if I go to a restaurant, I like to use restaurant examples for Jon, Kelly, because that’s where Jon comes from. That’s how he…. But when you go to a restaurant and like, I see so many restaurants now that are like, if you pay by cash, it’s this, but if you pay with a credit card, it’s going to be two and a half percent more. They’re telling you upfront based on how you’re going to pay, there’s going to be an additional fee involved. And I think as businesses, we need to incorporate that thinking ourselves and I think that makes your life a lot easier to sell your services.

Jon: Well, it’s also the transaction fee for my servers and bartenders out there. So we’re paying that fee back to the restaurant to take our tips home that night.

Gene: That’s right. That’s right. See, I told you.

Jon: Once it’s in your blood.

Gene: Yeah. So I’m done, Jon, back to you. Sorry, but I just want to make sure I got those answers.

Jon: No, I think those were great topics and I think that this conversation’s been helpful and it’s a different way of thinking about how to kind of impact your cash flow without really securing a traditional loan, without really having to change your business operations or sell off a whole bunch of inventory. So-

Kelly: Absolutely.

Jon: I think it opportunity for a lot of folks, especially in that service field and it’s something to consider if it makes sense for your model. So, Kelly appreciate you joining us, appreciate the time. And-

Kelly: Absolutely.

Jon: Think it was a great conversation.

Gene: Yeah. You get that long underwear on you’re in Minnesota. So cold weather is coming.

Kelly: Yeah, there was a nice coating of on the ground this morning, so-

Jon: Already.

Kelly: So yeah. We’ve been spoiled this fall, but yeah, it’s here.

Gene: Okay. See you in Florida.

Kelly: All right. Yeah, absolutely.

Gene: Thanks for joining us.

Kelly: Thanks guys.

Gene: Take care.

Kelly: Have a great day. Thank you.

Jon: Thanks you too. And thank you everyone for listening. This has been another episode of Small Biz Ahead. The small business podcast presented by The Hartford. For more information on insights and advice on how to run and grow your small business. Check out our blog or Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, we’d love it if you could kind of leave us a rating or review, make sure to subscribe and we’ll catch on the next one.

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